Cliff Doth
'Shake His Finger In
The Presence Of God'
(and catcheth flack
from servant of same)
Don L. Wood


Introduction: Cliff Walker used the database of a popular online to search for atheists, and found several hundred member profiles which contained either the word atheist or the word atheism. The goal was to alert atheists to our web Page.
     Many of the membership profiles contained the word atheist because the people were simply making cracks about that mythical "atheist in a foxhole." Other unoriginal quips imagined what's in the mind of atheists in various falling aircraft or wondered who atheists talk to during sex. Although Cliff wanted only to communicate with genuine atheists, he was not as careful as he should have been when weeding these others out. The following is an exchange between Cliff and Don L. Wood, who seems to think Clff's error is an omen of some sorts.
     Wood eventually offers to prove theism to Cliff, and Cliff says he'd like to see it. Unfortunately, instead of proving anything, Wood proceeds to (erroneously) presuppose (again) what Cliffs views are; then, rather than knock those presupposed views over (straw-man, anyone?) Wood simply rails and concludes that to believe the way Wood thinks Cliff believes "is beyond ignorance -- to be blunt -- it is stupid..." -- without explaining why believing the way Wood thinks Cliff believes is thus. 


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Cliff's orignal spam:

I am writing to tell you about our exciting new Athieist / Separationist WEB Page.

I got your [e-mail address] by entering "atheist" or "atheism" in the [online service's member profile search engine]. I tried to weed out the many who made cracks about atheists in foxholes or atheists in falling aircraft; if you are one of those, I accidentally left your name on the list and I profusely apologize for the inconvenience.

We will be posting an extensive collection of pieces about Gora, Lavanam, and Atheism in India. I am having their "souvenier" book scanned, and am typesetting two of Lavanam's booklets: one, an autobiography; the other, two pieces about Mahatma Gandhi final days as a secularist. Also in the works are two of Gora's full-length books: "We Became Atheists" (completed) and "An Atheist with Gandhi" which inspired Martin Luther King, Jr. Atheists in America and Europe do well to look toward India for inspiration and leadership.

The Historial Writings index is growing by leaps and bounds, and the News section is constantly updated with stuff from various sources, including American Atheists.

Separationists: check out "Cliff Walker's 'Recovery Watch'" page which exposes the rampant abuses of religious freedom in the addiction treatment industry, the criminal justice system, and the recovery group movement (Alcoholics Anonymous, ad naus). You may like out "DARWIN Frog" pitch; our "Money Stamp" bit is rapidly gaining momentum as well.

Links for these items and much more are listed in our Main Index.

Thanks, and have a nice day!

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Mr. Wood responds to the spam:

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Cliff's reply:

You presuppose several things -- including that I have a mailing list. I don't. This was a one-shot deal and the file with the names was emptied from the Windows 95 "Recycle Bin" before I went to bed that night. All I have now are replies unless I decide to do another tedious, hand-typed word-search on [the online service] in the future.

You can send me whatever proof you have of the existence of this "God" fellow which you and your associate, Mr. Bacon, insist can be proven. I'd like to take a look at it.

Cliff Walker

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Mr. Wood offers his proof:

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Cliff's response:

Er, where's the beef -- proof?

I don't see any case here, only jumping up and down and veiled threats of hellfire.

And when did I ever state that I know there are no gods? (One cannot prove a negative existential claim.) My position has always been that I have yet to hear a claim for the existence of a god that holds water with me. This is why I asked you to send me your much-touted proof -- which, I guess, turns out to be a lot of hot air!

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Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995-2006 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.