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From: woodys
To: Positive Atheism <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 11:41 PM
Subject: what are you doing?

After I reviewed your site, I have found it devoid of atheism. I have found it aimed at a religion. God will not be found here. Bigotry will not bring you peace. You are not enlightened, yet. Cast off your hatred. There is a path. Another path most humans can not go. There are tools and technicians willing to help. There is a way to clear the mind of religion. It is deep and personal.

If you are willing, please contact me.

From: Positive Atheism Magazine <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: woodys
Subject: Re: what are you doing?
Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 4:39 AM

You are welcome to state your case.

Please be aware that you start with a bang -- coming off sounding like a paranoid conspiracy theorist and more.

In light of this, your case will need not only to be self-evident but also clearly and compellingly stated. This is because our site represents a carefully-gathered sample of atheistic thought dating back two hundred years. For you to upset this apple cart will take quite some doing -- especially considering that your initial letter expresses the very bigotry, hatred, and falsehood that you so arrogantly denounce.

It also appears that you have not reviewed the entire 30 megabytes in our text-intensive website.

Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine

From: woodys
To: Positive Atheism Magazine <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 10:17 PM Subject: Re: what are you doing?

Hello Cliff Walker

I see you received a letter from me while I was in my cups. It was an interesting note wasn't it?

Anyway, I scanned your site again and have not changed my position. Your site doesn't appear to be atheistic but just anti- christian. I, being agnostic, can look at your site with an un jaunticed eye and see that.

A true atheist, as I understand the term, has no condition known as "good" or "evil" but a natural interest of self propogation and pleasure derived from our animal instincts and cutural conditioning. Is this correct?

From: Positive Atheism <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: woodys
Subject: Re: what are you doing?
Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 5:15 AM

I see you received a letter from me while I was in my cups. It was an interesting note wasn't it?

This is no excuse for indignity.

This is no excuse for setting up your own fantasy about what our position is (rather than finding out what our position really is), and then denouncing us based upon your fantasy rather than attacking our actual position.
 

Anyway, I scanned your site again and have not changed my position.

I still think you are bluffing: you have not read very much of our 30-megabyte, text-intensive website. Otherwise, you would not be attacking your own (false) portrayal of our position but would, if anything, be attacking something that resembles our position.
 

Your site doesn't appear to be atheistic but just anti- christian.

Organized atheism exists only to counter the claims of theists. Were it not for the claims of theists, nobody would know what atheism is, nor would the word "atheism" appear in any dictionary.
 

I, being agnostic, can look at your site with an un jaunticed eye and see that.

What is "an un jaunticed eye"? Does "an un jaunticed eye" mean the same thing as "agnostic" -- ignorant? Does "an un jaunticed eye" have anything to do with being a loose cannon, firing randomly at nothing in particular? firing at a mere word without finding out which meaning a particular group or individual attaches to that word when they use it to identify themselves?
 

A true atheist, as I understand the term, has no condition known as "good" or "evil" but a natural interest of self propogation and pleasure derived from our animal instincts and cutural conditioning. Is this correct?

No.

Had you actually read our page (had you even visited our Mission Statement), you would be addressing our statements denouncing your (above) position as falsehood, rather than simply presuming your position to be true, and then attempting to refute your own fantasy about the atheistic position.

I know you claim you have already read it, thus you know how to find it; nevertheless, I will remind you of our "Clues" section. If you will remember, this is a collection of articles on how to debate honestly. You may even remember that the vast majority of these articles give the same name for what you are doing: they call it the "straw man."

Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine

From: woodys
To: Positive Atheism <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: what are you doing?

Hello Cliff Walker,

I see you still use the emotional words; Indignity, fantasy, false portrayal, ignorance, denounce, loose cannon, strawman. You seem to evoke these words as if they were a part of an logical argument. We call these statements the "ad hominum" attack. You must have taken Logic 101, at least, to know what a "strawman argument" was, even if used incorrectly as you did. I am university trained in this type of thinking. I may have forgotten the spelling, but I haven't forgotten the techniques. This type of thinking is usually derived, but not always, from the desire of the speaker to evoke the memory his father, who is no longer existent, alive or dead........ Psy201. From this I have concluded you cannot be atheistic, but rebelling from your father. Where is your father by the way? You are too emotional to be an atheist. I only see what I can from an e-mail. I may be, or not be right.

I feel nothing about religion as you do. I do not get upset over the use of the Tooth Fairy or Santa Clause or Jesus or Budda or The Easter Bunny or Jehovah or Rama. Why do you hate religion so? Religion makes life tolerable for the masses and it makes those who fear death and nothingness calm and secure. I see religion as a positive and atheism as a negative. My job makes me do more disgusting things than say a couple of words ( controlled breaths ) than this. Where is the problem?

I plead ignorance of Theism as you call it. To me, Logic is the Logic of Nature. God does not fit the logical order of things. Ergo God does not exist. Ergo.......what matters? Ergo............Ergo?

Please do not take my reasoning as an attack on you personally. I try to think things through as logically as I can. I try to exclude the emotional thoughts. That is what I see wrong with your site. Too much religion!

From: Positive Atheism <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: woodys
Subject: Re: what are you doing?
Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 7:26 AM

I am university trained in this type of thinking.

So, then, I take it you're using flawed logic on purpose, and not simply out of ignorance.

Could that purpose be an attempt to deceive? We will assume "yes" to this question and have set a filter to delete any further e-mail from your account.

Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine

Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995-2006 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.