Your Morals:
Are Atheists Nihilists?
Cindy Maes
From: "Cindy Maes"
To: Positive Atheism <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: Your Morals
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 6:06 AM
Dear Cliff,
I am not a theist but I have problems understanding your moral philosophy. Dostoevsky had one of his characters in The Brothers Karamazov take the nihilistic approach that 'If there is no god, then everything is allowed', however you seem to hold many very traditional moral values and seem to think that there exists authoritative ideas of Right and Wrong. I read on the site that you feel that an atheist has to form her/his own moral values, so do you accept that there can be no authority for these values and that what results is that you like certain things (like compassion, equality, happiness), and someone else (e.g. Columbine killers) may like other things (like racism, murder), and that it is just a matter of preference, of differing Wills?
Surely you do not believe in some sort of universal moral intuition as this makes as little sense as christianity, the feelings of guilt are most accuratley accounted for by Freud's superego and its repressive effects on the self. What does it mean to say that values of compassion, equality, happiness, are better than selfish values such as murder? Is it not just our preference for the former over the latter that is meant by better and that enforcing those values over and against more selfish values is just another form of Der Wille Zur Macht?
I would be very grateful if you would respond to this letter. Thank you for your time and good health.
Yours faithfully,
Cindy Maes.
From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Cindy Maes"
Subject: Re: Your Morals
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 3:18 PM
Not very many atheists are nihilists. Some theists would have you believe otherwise, though.
I think the human tendencies toward cooperation and nurturing can be explained by natural selection. If this is so, then most people -- regardless of their philosophical outlook -- will tend toward cooperation and nurturing unless some dominant element within the culture (religious or political) whips the people into a loyalistic and competitive frenzy.
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
From: "Cindy Maes"
To: Positive Atheism <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: Re: Your Morals
Date: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:43 AM
Dear Cliff,
Thank you for your reply of Tue 11 Jan.
As I meantioned before, I am not a theist, and I hope that you understand that I do not intend to be bad spirited in debating with you.
You meantioned in your reply that 'Not very many atheists are nihilists. Some theists would have you believe otherwise, though'. When I speak of nihilism I mean the denial of an authority on moral issues, 'amorality not immorality' if you like. You explained how evolution may have formed the social instinct (this is not a moral instinct) in humans, but we cannot say that we 'should' act according to this social instinct and should not act according to more blatantly selfish 'instincts' (which evolution would surely also explain). I define social instinct and a tendancy 'toward co-operation and nurturing' and a moral instinct as some sort of universal intuition of Right and Wrong according to a moral authority.
My concern was with your use of the words Right and Wrong in an article on your site, as these strongly suggest a belief in moral authority. I, like you, prefer acting according to ideas of equality, compassion, justice rather than acting in a blatantly selfish and dominating way. Although we may will that ourselves and others act in this way, unfortunately we cannot claim that others should act in the same way because it is in accordance with the moral law. This is the dishonest ploy of christian ethics, trying to increase their power by getting the weight of a moral law behind them. This moral law has never existed and could never exist, what does exist is the will of the christian church(es) to impose their will on others. What we 'positive' atheists must honestly admit is that we cannot try to support our 'moral' values with the authority of a moral law behind us. And if we demand that other people behave in the same way and lock them up in prison if they murder then we are not acting 'Rightly' according to the moral law, but are acting according to our will.
I too was brought up a theist and when I got rid of god I tried to keep my belief in the moral law, I felt it gave purpose. However, I have come to realise that this is as real as both god and Santa Claus. Thank you for your time.
Yours faithfully,
Cindy Maes.
From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Cindy Maes"
Subject: Re: Your Morals
Date: Friday, January 14, 2000 3:00 PM
You use the term nihilism differently than most. Because the theists so often accuse all atheists of being nihilistic (in the traditional sense of the word), I avoid this word unless I specifically have the traditional meaning in mind (and usually only when I am pointing out that atheists are not necessarily nihilistic).
Although we atheists do not determine right from wrong by appealing to the notion of a sentient supernatural being, this does not mean we must eliminate the terms from our vocabulary. Madalyn Murray O'Hair and others became so picky about what terms they would and would not use that they eventually became way too difficult to speak with -- always correcting people as to the meanings of words. For this reason, I refuse to abandon perfectly useful words, and will use them as I see fit. I find it much easier to do this and offer explanations to the few who would misunderstand than to render my writings so tedious as to be unreadable.
My understanding of right and wrong is just that: my understanding of right and wrong.
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
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