'Kill Them All;
For The Lord Knoweth
Them That Are His'
Steve Locks
From: "Steve Locks" (U.K.) To: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: The source for "Kill them all: God will sort them out"
Date: Friday, September 01, 2000 4:30 PM
Dear Cliff,
On http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/faq1211.htm#1213 at Note A2 you say:
Notion of afterlife cheapens life ("Kill them all: God will sort them out" quote justifying [St. Bartholomew's Eve?]). |
I found the actual quote as follows:
"Tuez-les tous; Dieu reconnaitra les siens." |
[Arnaud-Amaury, Abbot of Citeaux, 1209, when asked by the Crusaders what to do with the citizens of Beziers who were a mixture of Catholics and Cathars. See http://
'In order to wipe out Catharism, a religion thriving in the south of France, the predominant Christian power of the time ordered a crusade. The crusade, named the Albigensian Crusade, lasted thirty-years. The death toll from this butchery is estimated at one-million lives, many of whom were Catholics, indistinguishable from Cathars by the marauders. Even children were slaughtered. One commander told his men: "Kill them all, for God knows his own!" '
An intelligent Christian even used this in a recent debate with me to justify biblical genocide, saying
As for God being good and ordering this slaughter, remember that the Amalekites had behaved atrociously for a long time by the time of their expunging; this was in an era when loyalty was to the tribe and tribal deity so that there was no chance of individual repentance. And God knew that any Amalekite who was good would be judged fairly at the end of time. The Hebrew invasion was judgement on them. Also, death is not the end -- any righteous Canaanites will be judged fairly at the final judgement; all other judgements are provisional. |
This was from Dr. Anthony Garrett. He is a Christian, research physicist and technical editor with over 60 papers in probability theory and plasma kinetic theory. He is also a popularizer of science with a special interest in combating creationism. Of particular interest to me was the fact that he used to be a member of the Australian Skeptics before becoming a Christian. So I wrote to him to enquire about this in connection with my "Asymmetry of conversion" research (you may remember you and I exchanged a few emails on this a year or so ago). The whole (massive) debate starts at http://
Madness still thrives!
Hope that's useful.
Regards,
Steve
Leaving Christianity:
www.users.
From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org> To: "Steve Locks"
Subject: Re: The source for "Kill them all: God will sort them out"
Date: Friday, September 01, 2000 5:41 PM
Okay, thanks!
I got the Abbot on our Scary Quotes page, but not the citation or the original. I'd forgotten that this was on our FAQ -- and actually had forgotten that this work in progress was posted unfinished. Note 2A was a note to myself to develop the piece further. This quotation is also mentioned in Joseph Lewis's monumental work, The Ten Commandments, which is probably where I remember it from.
I will post your information in our Scary Quotes section, and try to remember to finish the FAQ section. (So little time; so much to do!)
Please note that the URL you provided for the Abbot story returns a "No DNS Entry" error. I'll leave it up for now in case my server has an erroneous list.
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
From: "Steve Locks"
To: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: Re: The source for "Kill them all: God will sort them out"
Date: Saturday, September 02, 2000 4:45 PM
Hi Cliff,
Sorry about the duff URL. It appears to have moved, but this one definitely works:
http://www.nullensc.dircon.co.uk/chh/1_7.htm
I got the quote by using the "Pilate project" which allows you to download and search through all sorts of useful material, like back issues of the Skeptical Review, Dennis McKinsey's Biblical Errancy etc. An excellent resource just in case you've missed it.
You may know these others already too (for all I can remember I may have found them through Positive Atheism) but just in case, there are plenty more examples of Christian mayhem at "The Christian Hall of Shame", "Victims of the Christian Faith" and also James A. Haught at is an interesting read.
Best regards,
Steve
Leaving Christianity:
www.users.
From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Steve Locks"
Subject: Re: The source for "Kill them all: God will sort them out"
Date: Saturday, September 02, 2000 6:20 PM
Thanks for this!
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995-2006 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.