Yet Another
Quotes Page Ripoff
(Report)

From: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
To: <diman@dreaming.org>
Subject: Unauthorized Use of My Work
Date: Thursday, October 26, 2000 6:48 PM

You have grabbed two entire folders of my work and mirrored them at:
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/

You did this without even asking me for permission (the quoted material is not copyrighted but the source citations, biographical quips and HTML encoding are my work and are thus owned by me).

You even did this without providing links to our website: links indicating that they will return to Positive Atheism return only to your own website.

Please do one or two of the following:

1. Provide return links to our website from each HTML page.

          OR

2. Remove my work from your website.

Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Five years of service to
     people with no reason to believe
P.O. Box 16811
Portland, OR 97292
http://www.PositiveAtheism.org/
editor@positiveatheism.org

"As soon as you're born
     They make you feel small..."
          -- John Lennon (1940-1980)

"Changes take place, not independent of
     man's will, but on account of man's wills.
     Civilization has progressed by man's
     interference with material conditions."
          -- Gora (1902-1975)

"The legitimate powers of government extend
     to such acts only as are injurious to others.
          -- Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

"I've gone into thousands of [fortune teller's
     parlors], and have been told thousands of
     things, but nobody ever told me I was a
     policewoman getting ready to arrest her."
          -- NYC detective

Graphic Rule

  Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right? If by "imitation" you mean "ripoff," I think not. Let me explain:

I have spent thousands of hours putting together our Big List of Quotations.

I do all of this for the purpose of supporting the print edition of Positive Atheism Magazine. If we can get enough donations from subscriptions for the print edition, perhaps I will eventually stop having to put all my spare money into this project. You see, I am 100 percent disabled and live on a meager disability pension, and pay the bulk of the bills for this project out of that pension. What's left over goes to food, rent, medical bills, kitty food, and a few drinks here and there.

So, I have now discovered two instances where someone has simply transferred our entire quotes section from our domain to their own website, in an apparent attempt to use my work for their own personal gain.

The first instance was somewhat humorous: someone took all the files for our Big List of Quotations and translated them into Hungarian. I thought this was kinda cute and basically blew it off, but some of our supporters pointed out that to do this contradicted the Positive Atheism policy of insisting on truthfulness in all affairs. Point well taken.

Earlier, I caught an atheist group grabbing my Joseph Lewis material and posting it on their own web page for the purpose of drawing attention to their organization (stealing my work for personal gain). We boast of having the only Joseph Lewis material on the Internet. I tediously hand typed much of this material because I only recently could afford to buy a scanner and OCR software that's worth using. Still, this material is tough to do even with a scanner! This atheist group immediately responded to my request to remove the material, so y'all didn't hear about that matter, either.

I do this work in order to draw attention to the Positive Atheism print edition. That's the main reason I go to all this trouble. The print edition is the only source we have to take in a little money to help pay for this project. Without it, I cannot afford to do this and would need to fold the website and the magazine. For now, we take in enough to supplement my contributions a little, but most of the money still comes from me.

So, I sent the above request to the e-mail address on said web page, thinking that perhaps this was an honest mistake and we could expect cooperation so that at least the links worked properly. Instead, I encountered the likes of someone who thinks it is right to steal somebody's work and use it for personal gain. Not only that, this person chooses to blame me for him having done this evil deed!

 

Graphic Rule

Graphic Rule

 

So, instead of being cooperative or even apologetic, this person blames me for the fact that they ripped off my work. On top of that, they urge me to "make certain progress in moving towards open-minded way of thinking and sharing the knowledge."

Excuse me!?

I pay top dollar for one of the best servers in the Pacific NorthWest just so I can "share the knowledge"! In addition, I spend every spare moment I have coming up with more of this "knowledge" and go to great lengths to format it into an extremely usable form, thus making it easy for people to obtain this "knowledge." But, since I did all the work, I think it's only right that this "knowledge" lives on my website -- which I built, and which I pay for!

Yes, I think I am the one who already knows what it means to "share the knowledge." I share it with the public so that the public may benefit from it.

But I refuse to put out all of my spare time and money and then sit back and laugh about it when someone else gloms my work and uses it for personal gain.

Oh, the only real reason that anybody would have a tough time getting through to me would have been when we were with aracnet: they have the most sophisticated SPAM filter I've ever seen, and it could be that this domain was blocked for having a history of sending unsolicited e-mail. But, a quick check of aracnet's SPAM filter shows no blocks to the dreaming.org domain. So, we can safely conclude that this fellow is lying to me when he says that he tried to contact me.

Also, I looked at his home page before writing to him, and deliberately searched for any reference to Positive Athesim -- and found none. That page, as I write this, was last updated at 10/28/2000 04:33:53, (place javascript:alert(document.lastModified) into the Address box) and his letter to us was sent on 10/27, meaning he has altered his page since writing to me. So, I strongly suspect that the mention made of our ownership of the work was made after the fact. In any event, he now knows our correct address (and knew it all along, as this was taken long after we got our domain), so it's clear that he's lying about any intention to give us even a link back.

With a response like this, I decided to do some research -- at my own expense: information such as this (and such as what lives on our Big List of Quotations) doesn't come for free (unless you steal it). I wrote to the owners of the dreaming.org domain to see whether this was a their decision or whether they would be willing to assist in helping us see that our material is removed from their domain.

 

Graphic Rule

From: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
To: <mitayai@dreaming.org>; <lloyd@dreaming.org>; <peoria@dreaming.org>; <admin@dreaming.org>
Cc: <webmaster@spiretech.com>;
Subject: Dreaming.org's Unauthorized Use of My Work and Service Marks
Date: Friday, October 27, 2000 3:30 PM

Dreaming.org's Unauthorized Use of My Work and Service Marks

To whom it may concern at dreaming.org:
 

THE SITUATION:

Yesterday I was searching the net for some information needed to update some files on my website. While searching, I came upon the very file I was seeking to update. However, I noticed that the file was the old color (I changed colors about three weeks ago) and so I checked it out to see what's up.

Lo and behold! There sit 242 of my files! -- my work! -- ripped directly from my website, file-for-file, but residing, unaltered, on another domain! This grab of my work was done so hastily that the culprit never bothered to fix any of the links that went bad as a result of the files being removed from where they had been designed to live!

This domain is dreaming.org.

Usually, I place "cartographer's errors" in my e-text conversions so that I can tell if somebody is simply grabbing it and reformatting it with their own HTML editor (and I've caught several doing just that with rare historical material which only I have gone to the expense and trouble of converting to e-text). But whoever grabbed my quotes section didn't even bother to remove my name and service marks from the pages he stole. Also, much of this material is my original work, or is gleaned from extremely rare source material for which I have invested what little savings I have. The use of portraits in a quotations list is (or was, until now) unique to my work, titled, Big List of Quotations.
 

MY REQUEST:

So, I am asking whether the decision to grab 242 files from my website and to post them unaltered at lucid.org is a company-wide decision? If this is not a company-wide decision, then I request assistance from the company's management in removing my work and service mark from the lucid.org domain. If this is a company-wide decision, I am willing to seek assistance from Canadian and American authorities in having it removed if that is what is necessary to accomplish this goal.

All of the imaging and research is my work, representing thousands of hours of tedious research, as well as work such as spending an hour or two fixing a single bad photo that I got from a microfilm at the library, and similar work. Also, seeking permission to use copyrighted work is itself an expensive ordeal, and when we do obtain permission, the agreement has always stipulated that a specific URL is the only place where the work will reside. The URLs to each of the 242 files in question are listed below.
 

MY POSITION:

Below that is my exchange with diman@dreaming.org wherein this person has pledged to make an altered version of my work available to the public "free of charge." This person thinks I should "make certain progress in moving towards open-minded way of thinking and sharing the knowledge."

My position is this: I am "sharing the knowledge" by paying the premium price for an ISP, one of the best in the Pacific Northwest, and maintaining a website which contains this information in an easy-to-use format. My ISP has wide bandwidth and is right off the main trunk to Redmond, Washington, thus we don't need to mirror our site anywhere. My posting of this material, I feel, is a sufficient effort at "sharing the knowledge."

As for being open-minded, I refuse to be open-minded to falsehood and exploitation. Being an atheist, I hold that truthfulness is the most important ethic, being the basis for all ethical behavior. Thus, I not only practice truthfulness to the best of my ability and at all costs, I also insist upon truthfulness from others, even in the most mundane affairs.

Thank you in advance for your understanding and cooperation.

Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Five years of service to
     people with no reason to believe
P.O. Box 16811
Portland, OR 97292
http://www.PositiveAtheism.org/
editor@positiveatheism.org

Graphic Rule

Unauthorized posting of my work (242 files), some of which required that I obtain permission in order to post: http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-a.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-b.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-b1.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-b2.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-b3.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-b4.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-c.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-c1.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-d.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-d1.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-e.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-e1.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-f.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-g.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-g1.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-h.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-h2.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-i.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-j.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-l.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-l1.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-m.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-m1.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-m2.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-o.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-pq.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-r.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-s.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-s2.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-s4.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-s6.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-tuv.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-w.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-w1.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/quote-xyz.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/scary.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/unknown.htm
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/~1st-quote-a.htm
 
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/adamsjn2.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/adamsjohnquincy7c.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/adamssam89.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/alleneth.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/allenwoody.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/andregide.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/anthonysb.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/aristoph.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/aristotle.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/asimovi.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/atwood.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/babel.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/bacon.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/bakunin.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/baldwin5.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/baraka.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/barnumpt.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/beauvoir.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/beckett1.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/beckett2.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/bentham.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/bernhardts.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/bierce.gif
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/blackhlf.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/blackmun.jpg
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http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/bradley1.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/breastedjh.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/brennan.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/breton.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/browning.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/brucelenny.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/bruno.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/butler.jpg
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http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/byron3.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/byron4.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/caen.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/campbelljoseph.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/camusa.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/carling.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/carlyle.jpg
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http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/carterjimmy.jpg
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http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/celine1.jpg
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http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/cioran1.jpg
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http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/cleveland.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/clintondw.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/cobden.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/codrescu.jpg
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http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/colman1.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/colman2.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/commagerhenry.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/comtea.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/connolly1.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/coolidgecalvin1.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/cousinsnorman.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/crickf.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/cuomo.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/darrow2.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/darrowc.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/darwin.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/davies.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/dawkins.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/defoe1.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/deloria.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/demosth.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/dewey.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/dickinson.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/diderot2.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/dietrich.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/dillard.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/dobbs.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/dobzhansky.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/donahue.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/dorsen.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/dostoevsky.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/douglaswo.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/eddington.jpg
http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/edison1.jpg
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http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/edison3.jpg
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http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/einstein3.jpg
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http://lucid.dreaming.org/Earth/religion/Quotes/qpix/fellini.jpg
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From: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
To: "Will Mitayai Keeso Rowe"
Subject: Re: Dreaming.org's Unauthorized Use of My Work and Service Marks
Date: Friday, October 27, 2000 9:09 PM

What he has threatened to do is to reformat my hand-typed and tediously researched material and then distribute it for free.

This man is an exploiter of the most arrogant variety; he's not like the rest of us. Almost his entire website has been grabbed wholesale from various other legitimate websites.

It's one thing to grab quotations here and there and assimilate them into a larger collection of quotations: this guy has grabbed my entire life's project for the past several years.

I will see if the mirror of my site is gone, and if it is not gone by November 1, I will contact you again.

Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Five years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

Graphic Rule

Graphic Rule

From: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
To: "Diman" <diman@dreaming.org>
Subject: Re: Unauthorized Use of My Work
Date: Sunday, October 29, 2000 5:23 AM

Get a life.

The work is on my website for all to see. You don't even have to watch a monkey pacing back and forth in order to enjoy the benefits of my work. It's abslolutely free and absolutely available simply by visiting my website.

For you to grab my work and post it on your website for personal gain is low class.

Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Five years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

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Graphic Rule

From: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
To: "Diman" <diman@dreaming.org>
Subject: Re: Unauthorized Use of My Work
Date: Sunday, October 29, 2000 12:23 PM

You know what? My position stands!

You are the greedy one, grabbing other people's work and posting it on your own website for personal gain. No, you may not be making any cash at it, but you are drawing attention to your political position -- which appears to be a corruption of anarchism, a misunderstanding of what anarchism really means.

Fair use involves placing material into a venue where it doesn't otherwise exist. My work on the Big List of Quotes is already freely available on the Internet, and does not need to be mirrored anywhere.

Had you not been so arrogant, had you not acted so greedy about it, I would have been happy to work out a deal wherein you could use the section as it exists here and nobody would know the difference -- it would appear to be part of your website though there would be only one copy of it.

But, I refuse to deal with exploiters, and thus refuse to deal with you. My only recommendation would be to do some of your own work because this life is your only chance to make something of yourself.

Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Five years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

Graphic Rule

Graphic Rule

From: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
To: "Diman" <diman@dreaming.org>
Subject: Re: Unauthorized Use of My Work
Date: Sunday, October 29, 2000 1:20 PM

Section 107:

You did not take a portion of my work, you glommed the whole thing. With this alone we can rest our case as far as Section 107 is concerned.

When I grab snippets out of Haught's and Gaylor's books, I am not simply presenting an e-text version of the book itself, I am taking sections, a small fraction of the entire work, and assimilating it into a larger whole which features material from numerous sources. I am also converting the work into a different format, putting my own organizational and artistic flair on the material. For each of these two authors I have provided links to their page with each use of their material. I have also been careful not to impair the integrity of their work because I have introduced very few typos and other errors into the work, and in several cases have silently corrected errors, improving the integrity of the original editor.

Also, I have discussed with each author the use of their work, and so I don't even need to invoke "Fair Use" because I have permission. However, what I have done constitutes "Fair Use" as far as I can tell (and this is an admittedly difficult law to interpret, or so my copyright lawyer tells me).

Two factors would need to be determined, here:

1. How many hits are being taken away from my site (as hits, in this case, would determine market value according to the law).

It's not like you were encouraging people to go to my site, as you did not even provide links to my site and the links that alleged to go to my site didn't work and wouldn't have worked with or without your claim that you had the wrong URL. The return links were site-relative links and remained site-relative after you posted my work. (You didn't even touch the links; you didn't even try, you liar!)

Are you ready to provide statistics for your website? that is, are you prepared to produce the hit-counts for each of the Big List of Quotes pages? I have those figures for my pages, and pay good money for them.

2a. How has my expressed value of my technical and artistic integrity been impaired by the existence of a copy of my work that has bad links to my home page? Not one bad internal link will be found on our entire website (over 2000 HTML pages of work that I formatted myself -- mostly with NotePad). Your copies allege to return to my website but return a 404 error instead. What does this make me look like if someone familiar with the integrity of my work doesn't realize that this is a bootleg copy?

2b. How has my expressed ethical integrity been impaired by an entire copy of my work being used without the user having asking me for permission -- unless I make a stern and public effort to protect my rights? The primary core value of the philosophy of Positive Atheism as I teach it is the insistence on truthfulness in all our affairs. This is what distinguishes Positive Atheism from all other forms of atheism. For me to allow the blatant theft of my work without a good fight impairs my credibility as an activist and a lay philosopher, and makes me a hypocrite. This was the main criticism I received from supporters who watched the way I handled the Hungarian mirror.

Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Five years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

Graphic Rule

 

Apparently having little else going for him, the lazy toad has decided to come back for another round of harrassment.

 

 

From: "Neodim Kollobok" <diman@dreaming.org>
To: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
Subject: Lets thank the Editor!! for not doing anything else.
Date: November 24, 2003 10:50 PM
 
Remember me>?
 
yes, I tried to increase the probability of survival of your accumulated
abstracts in case of hardware failure etc ...
But you only saw one side of it, as you used to when spending SO MUCH OF
YOUR PRECIOUS TIME working on your site.
Humanity must be very thankful to you since you do not have enough time to
do anything else.
So .. go on! Keep on believing not!
But stay there where you are.
A faith or a grasp of this reality is unreachable for you. Next life, may
be. Good luck.
 
 
 
Dreamer
 
http://stupid.dreaming.org

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Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995–2010 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to Positive Atheism to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.