Be Careful Of
The True Believer
Eric
From: Eric
To: editor@positiveatheism.org
Subject: Re: The Wiles of Christian Apologists
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:02:41-0400 (EDT)
Cliff,
I'd like to respond in depth to the letter on your website titled, "The Wiles of Christian Apologists."
For example, Bible talks about atoms in Hebrews 11:3.
Democritus first postulated the idea of atoms 500 years prior to the writing of Hebrews so even if Hebrews did say such a thing, it certainly wasn't scientific forethought, but rather an afterthought. But the fact is that Hebrews says no such thing. The verse reads, "by faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible." (NASB) This in no way indicates a knowledge of atoms but rather is a baseless assertion that the universe was created by something we can't see. It could be referring to anything but clearly appears to be referring to God himself, not atoms.
It also says that the Earth floats in Space (Job 26:7)
Not quite. It says that the earth (meaning the land) is supported by nothing, which isn't true. This is all figurative language. If you take the rest of the chapter as literally as you've taken this verse then it also says that the moon has a face. A couple of chapters later it says that God keeps hail and snow in storehouses. Another problem for biblicists is the reference to the destruction of Rahab the serpent. This is a reference to Babylonian mythology found in the Enuma Elish, not a reference to Jewish or Christian stories. In the Enuma Elish Rahab is referred to as Tiamet.
Creationists say that medical science has only recently that blood clotting in a new born baby reaches its peak on the eight day, then it drops down. (The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eight day.)
Whether that is true medically or not I have no idea but regardless, it certainly doesn't take a whole lot of trial and error to figure out which day might be best to perform the circumcision. No divine foreknowledge is needed. Also, I think it's inaccurate to say that the Bible consistently says to wait until the eighth day. The Bible is not consistent on many things and circumcision is one of them. In the book of John, there is a reference that circumcision is to be done on the Sabbath which means the child would be no more than seven days old and could be much younger.
The Bible said that the Earth was round 2000 years ago(Isaiah 40:22)
Once again, this is not accurate. It refers to the earth as a circle, not a sphere and the verse also claims that God stretches a canopy over this circle like a tent. We know none of this to be true. The writer obviously thinks of the earth as being flat and round like a quarter. This was a sensible thing for him to believe since the sun appeared to him to look the same way. If the writer was a little more knowledgeable about the scientific discoveries of his day he would have known that the greek astronomer eratosthenes had measured the circumference of the earth in the 2nd century bce and that pythagoras had not only predicated that it was round 300 years earlier,but had also predicted that it rotated around a central point.
Creationists even say that the dinosaurs were mentioned in the Bible (Job40:15-24)
This is just plain silly. It mentions a large unspecified creature. It could be a hippopotamus. It could be some sort of dragon. Very possibly, it is another references to the Babylonian gods in the Enuma Elish.
There is also a book called "Bible Code". I can 't remember the name of the author but he proves that the Old Testament prophesies the assassination of Itzhak Rabin and it even gives the name of the murderer. This book is available in all book stores.
There are numerous problems with this Bible code theory. First of all there are no original manuscripts so the codes are using copies of copies of copies. In addition there were no vowels in ancient Hebrew so finding words that seem improbable in English are much easier to find in ancient Hebrew because they are much shorter. Also, the matches can be made forward, backward or diagonally. The codes have been applied to "Moby Dick" and "War and Peace" and the same phenomena has occur ed. It's nothing more than statistics at work. Given the loose criteria used to find these coded messages, with a book the size of the Bible it would be more miraculous to not make any connections. You may want to check out the following articles: "Hidden Messages and The Bible Code" by David E. Thomas; "Follow-up Bible-Code Developments" by David E. Thomas.
Creationists also argue that we can be sure that the Bible is God's words because there are many prophecies in it: Matthew 24:6-7
It predicts the existence of wars. That's like predicting the sun will rise. Anybody could predict that wars will occur. If I predict that within the next year there will be more trouble in the middle east, does that make me a prophet?
Matthew 24:11-14
Once again, not much of a prophecy. This is an example of counting the hits and ignoring the misses. Jesus predicted false prophets would come. That's not a hard thing to predict since the world at that time had seen many, including Jesus himself. It also predicts that Christianity will spread throughout the world and then the end would come. So he got one right and he got one wrong. Not very good odds unless the end came and I missed it. Jesus also said he would return again during the lifetime of his followers, but he didn't. (Luke 21:32)
Luke 21:15-17
Here he predicts people will hate his followers. Once again not much of a gamble. In the first century, Christianity was just a small cult. This makes him no more prophetic than David Koresh predicting that the government would persecute him for stock piling enough weapons to start a small war.
Luke 21:26
When was this one fulfilled?
Luke 21:24 (the passing of Jerusalem from Gentile to Jewish hands)
Actually you've got it backwards. It says that the Gentiles will trample the Jews, which was already going on at the time the book of Luke was written.
1 Timothy 4:3
Although this is presented as a prediction of the future it was a commentary on current events, just like many other prophecies in the Bible.
Daniel 12:4
How has this verse been fulfilled?
So, as a result I am a little bit confused and wanted to hear your opinions about all of the above mentioned arguments.
It sounds as if you've gotten information from a dishonest source who took numerous verses out of context and overloaded you with them. Be careful of the true believer. He will say anything to defend his cause because he believes with all his heart that without his core beliefs he could not survive.
Sincerely,
Eric
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