'Budding Agnostic'
Has Vestigial Fears
Corey C.
From: Corey C.
To: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: from a budding agnostic/atheist
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:26 PM
Cliff,
I have a question I hope you or one of your readers can help me with. Having been raised a strict Lutheran and been fully brainwashed as a child with the doctrine of hell, how does one go about permanently expunging this horrible form of psychological abuse from their memory? I envy your non-religious upbringing, and wonder if this is an issue you ever have dealt with since you weren't tortured as a child with having to say prayers every night before going to bed (every night I was forced to recite the good old kiddy prayer which includes the passage "if I die before I wake, I pray the lord my soul to take." Nice bedtime image for a four year old, eh?).
It has taken me many years to come to this point where I am ready to totally cut the cord and quit clinging to those last vestiges of theism that have, instead of giving me comfort, simply been a convenient way of avoiding coming to grips with my mortality. I have been a psuedo-agnostic for some ten years now, tilting towards wanting to be religious out of a misguided sense of jealousy towards those people who seemed certain about some kind of spiritual truth. I have wasted too much of my life standing in front of Pascal's proverbial roulette wheel, clinging fretfully with sweaty palms to my chips and wondering what square to put them on and thereby avoid eternal damnation. I am now ready to take my chips to the bar, buy a nice bourbon, and say "fuck it, this is all a bunch of total bullshit."
I first started doubting religion when I asked my Sunday school teacher when I was about 8 why we baptized babies (gotta love those good old fashioned baby dunking churches). I was told, "because Jesus said to baptize everyone," to which I replied, "would god send a baby to hell if it wasn't baptized?" The answer was the beginning of the end of my xianity. "Well, Corey, I don't think god would do that, but don't you think it's better to be on the safe side?". Is that sick, or what? I dropped out of confirmation when I was twelve, and have an aunt who is still worried about my spiritual future because I am not confirmed (I am 31 now). Instead of taking things to their logical conclusion, I have instead studied apologetics, read McDowell and his ilk until I could no longer stand the circular reasoning of their arguments (they all seem circular when I really, honestly analyze them), and wasted precious time out of my life trying to convince myself of something that is an utter bunch of nonsense.
Thanks for reading my letter, if nothing else writing it has been therapeutic for me. I have spent the last several days reading much of your web site and can honestly say I have found it to be quite inspiring and entertaining, a good combination. I do seriously wonder how to forever forget about worrying about my spiritual future and just enjoy living my life on this planet.
Thanks a bunch,
Corey C
From: "Positive Atheism Magazine" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: Corey C. Subject:
Re: from a budding agnostic/atheist
Date: Friday, February 16, 2001 8:06 PM
Methinks we're stuck with these ideas that have been implanted in the mind. We have a discussion of this in our Forum, and you might want to take a look at it.
If they're really bothering you, you might wish to consult a psychiatrist to see if this is some sort of depressive disorder or a panic disorder. The other theory that I know of, which is both illegal and untested (thanks to Senator Ted Kennedy's quick thinking in 1966) is the research that Timothy Leary did with mind-altering chemicals such as LSD. Leary hoped to be able to "undo" what he called "imprinting" which occurrs during crucial moments during one's early life.
Finally, which denomination dunks babies? Usually, those who dunk baptize only those who want to be baptized, those who baptise babies only sprinkle, and a few sprinklers baptize only those who want it -- there is a pattern, here -- but I've never heard of dunking babies!
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Five years of service to
people with no reason to believe
From: Corey C.
To: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: baby dunking not meant literally
Date: Friday, February 16, 2001 10:52 PM
Thanks for your quick response. I haven't tried the psychotropic drugs you mentioned since I was 20 or so, and then they were used purely recreationally. Perhaps it would be a good idea to consider some more serious utilization of these substances. Perhaps mushrooms could work? I enjoy them much more than LSD, and feel they are safer considering the difficulty in obtaining pure LSD these days.
As to the baby dunking comment, I did not mean full immersion as practiced by Mormons and Baptists. I was brought up a Lutheran, and they merely sprinkle some water on the forehead when baptizing, so you were correct in your observation. The ritual of confirmation is then used in post-pubescence to "confirm" the baptism vows made by your parents in your infancy. It is at this time one becomes fully accountable, supposedly, for their spiritual future since you have been fully indoctrinated in the faith, memorized your catechism, and all that nonsense. In the Lutheran church children do not participate in communion (that wacky cannibalistic ritual I believe goes back to the cult of Mithras in antiquity) until they are confirmed.
I will go back to your web page and look for the discussion you mentioned. Thanks again for the site, and double thanks for responding to my letter.
Sincerely,
Corey C
From: "Positive Atheism Magazine" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: Corey C.
Subject: Re: baby dunking not meant literally
Date: Saturday, February 17, 2001 12:41 AM
The baptism of infants is based upon the Patriarchal notion that the father of the family's salvation counts for all. This is based in part upon Hebrew Law and in part on an obscure passage in Acts where the father was baptized and his household was saved.
Psychotropic drugs are those that a psychiatrist gives you, and are not to be confused with psychedelics, which the hippies used to take in the 1960s (and which, I understand, are somewhat popular today -- although Senator Ted Kennedy made sure that we cannot obtain pharmaceutical-grade LSD and cannot study its effects, forcing those who desire this option to rely on stuff that, for all we know, could have been made in a Mr. Coffee™).
Psychedelics, I think, unless Leary was right (and we probably won't know in our lifetimes, Senator Kennedy), would probably aggravate the situation you describe. Even if I were recommending it (and I'm not -- I'm being facetious), I'd do it only in the presence of someone like Leary (now dead), someone who believes in the technique and who has lots of experience in practicing the technique. Do you know anybody who is still alive who has practiced Leary's techniques? I think Ram Das is still alive, but I don't know if he still practices; Robert Anton Wilson is a bit hard to take seriously, though if I were serious about experimenting (I'm not: I'm just making a point), he's probably the one I'd look up.
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Five years of service to
people with no reason to believe
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