Why So Many Words
To Explain That
There Is Not A God?
[unsigned]
From: [unsigned]
To: Positive Atheism
Sent: August 22, 2001 7:30 PM
Subject: WebMaster:_Positive_Atheism_Index
... just a little note to the editors
I find it interesting that it takes so many words and deep thoughts to explain that there is not a God.
I find it extremely easy to see God without any words at all.
From: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
To: "[unsigned]"
Subject: WebMaster: Positive Atheism Index
Date: August 22, 2001
I don't understand what you're talking about.
Who is saying that there is not a god? Did I write to any theists and tell them that no gods exist? I don't remember ever doing that. Did I post on my web site the statement that no gods exist? If so, send me the URL and I'll quickly change it to reflect what atheism really is: the simple absence of a god-belief.
Or did you merely click the e-mail link on our front page upon seeing a single word, atheism? This word is widely misunderstood by theists and misrepresented by their leaders as meaning something that it does not? Did you not check out what we have to say before firing off your salvoes against us? Is this the kind of ethic that this "God" fellow inspires people toward?
Meanwhile, can you provide me with a compelling reason to think that such things as gods exist? Or do I have to sit here and continue to say that I have yet to encounter a reason for thinking that gods exist, and thus remain an atheist -- that is, a person without theism?
Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six years of service to
people with no reason to believe
From: "[unsigned]"
To: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
Sent: August 22, 2001
Subject: WebMaster: Positive Atheism Index
Cliff,
Please allow me to kindly re-phrase: from ...
"I find it interesting that it takes so many words and deep thoughts to explain that there is not a God. |
to ...
"I find it interesting that it takes so many words and deep thoughts to explain that there is not a God belief. |
I will use words to explain, even though it does nothing to explain His existence. Just my belief in Him.
You said: "Meanwhile, can you provide me with a compelling reason to think that such things as gods exist?"
God is not a thing as some may suppose. He is God. He just "is". He always was and we were created in His image but not with the understanding of all that He knows. You may have heard that we are separated from God because we choose to go our own way like that fellow you quoted. Bertrand Russell. He said he was free to work out his own destiny. Yes, we all are. The fact that he explains away that there is no reason to believe God (dogmas and traditional theologies?) is true, that was his conclusion. I would much rather quote someone who has had a positive experience with this God fellow. How about just me. I believe in things I cannot smell, touch, feel, and see, quite often. Just because you cannot see me, you respond to me as if I was a living human. Why? God is real to me because I was very daring and courageous. I actually took Him at His word and asked Him to prove Himself to me. I did what He said to do in faith and told Him that I have sin and go my own way, not His. That I am sorry for this sin. That I believe He sent His Son Jesus to this earth via a Virgin birth, he was crucified, died and then rose from the dead only to then ascend to heaven. Bizarre, huh? I asked Jesus to come into my heart to show me what He had planned for me, if anything. What the heck did I have to lose? My pride? A few silly moments of talking to myself? It took actual belief for those moments to take God at His word. My life has changed dramatically. Supernaturally. He blinds the eyes of non believers unless He chooses to let you see. Doesn't that get you mad? Tell Him you are mad at Him for hiding all of this "Truth". Ask Him to show you. (It is not putting Him to the test. That is something else.) Jesus says in John 14 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me!" Pretty exclusive.
I do have to apologize to you for a slight misunderstanding I have with the way you talk about a "god belief" and my talk about "belief in God". I guess I assumed you did not believe in God. You asked for compelling reasons that He exists.
When I was in college and was looking in the microscope and saw the intricate beauty of little organisms I found that it took more to explain away that there was not a living God than that it all happened by chance.
When I saw my wife give birth to three of our children, it made me thankful to our creator God that they were so beautiful and that yep, I was too. We are fearful and wonderfully made!
When the doctors and nurses gave me up for dead after a near fatal bee sting, a prayer to God brought me back to life. I went right home.
You sound like a guy who is ten times smarter than me! You really sound like you read a lot and come to some pretty compelling reasons for believing and not believing what you.... whatever. I just think that a guy as intelligent as you with faith in God like me could transform and help so many broken and hurting lives through the very real power of God through Jesus. You can do a lot of good on your own but with His power, you can do anything. I am sorry if you think I "fired off salvoes" against you. I did not intend to do that. I just thought it takes faith to believe in The God and He cannot be explained or proven or thought out and brought to some logical conclusion or reasoned into a theory. He just "is". How can I say it another way other than the way I said it? God is love. God is truth. We love Him because He first loved us. These are all things I believe because the Bible tells us these things. I read a few books by atheists in college. Have you read the book of John? I recommend it. I think it explains it all very clearly what I believe. It is where I get my theism. Take care, Cliff.
From: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
To: "[unsigned]"
Subject: WebMaster: Positive Atheism Index
Date: August 22, 2001
I find it interesting that it takes so many words and deep thoughts to explain that there is not a God belief.
We have never said that there is no god-belief. Not only do we fully recognize that the majority of humans have god-beliefs, but we actually go so far as to dignify those believers by presupposing that all theists have (or think they have) valid reasons for believing the way they do. We differ from theists only in that we do not consider those reasons to be strong enough to warrant our assent to their claims that gods exist.
Meanwhile, if you claim that gods exist, then the only way for you to communicate that information to me is through some form of language. It appears to be very important to you for me to believe that gods exist, because you have gone so far as to write me an e-mail and degrade me for not holding such a belief (and lie about our web site's purpose, to boot -- twice). If it is that important for me to agree with you, then I must insist that you make a strong case for the existence of gods, and that you do this using some form of language.
If you don't do this, then I think you owe us an apology for degrading us simply because we do not agree with your claims, particularly since you did not back up your claims with evidence and strong argument.
This web site and magazine are for the benefit of atheists, not theists. Our target audience consists of those who already lack a god-belief, and we have no desire to try to change anybody's mind on this question. While we welcome theists to visit and even to participate, we must ask them to behave as the guests that they are. We've never had to ask this of atheists, only theists. We just don't understand why so many theists log on and send us e-mail solely for the purpose of trying to straighten us out or degrading us for not agreeing with them -- particularly since not a one of them has been willing to provide us with a convincing reason for believing that gods exist.
Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six years of service to
people with no reason to believe
From: "[unsigned]"
To: "Positive Atheism Magazine"
Subject: WebMaster: Positive Atheism Index
Date: August 23, 2001 2:24 AM
Thank you for your thoughts. We own different beliefs. I see our differences and I do not think you are a lesser person because of our differences. I apologize if you feel I have degraded you in any way. I think you may not have understood or read much of what I said and took much of what I said as an insult some how. I cared enough to send an e-mail because I feel you and everyone else in this world is worthy of conversation and dignity. Our main difference is that I "believe" there is only one God ... with a capital "G". not gods. Again, no insults or degradations intended; you are not wrong for believing different, as you know.
The language of my proof of belief in God is simply called faith. Men are persecuted and die for it daily. I also believe it is true that we will all one day know the truth. Life is very short! See you soon.
Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995-2008 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.