The Root Of America?
From what I've read, you atheists sound soo anti-and real mad about praying, believing, etc. But isn't that what America all about from the beginning??
The land of the Free, where anyone can worship freely and have free speech, including about their own faith or believes.
As well as the land for people who may only have faith in themselves like the atheists.
So please don't get mad if they express their own belief and hang on to the root of America. They're not asking or forcing you to believe. Nobody asks you to do that. They may invite you to do so, but they don't force you I don't think. They would only like to express their own belief freely -- like the pilgrims who came here in the first place from Oppressions.
And it times of mourning like after the Tragedy to find comfort in their faith. Since this reminds them not to take their freedom for granted, and being humble because so many things in life including tragedy are beyond human control. Because people's mind, intelligence -- whether you want to admit it or not, is limited.
My hope is that you guys will respect such views. Just as they respect your view of nothingness faith or faith based on your own control and believe only on what you can see.
May Peace be with you,
From: "Positive Atheism" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
To: "Manda Sampouw"
Subject: Re: "Day of Prayer" Exploits Tragedy
Date: October 20, 2001 6:55 AM
From what I've read, you atheists sound soo anti-and real mad about praying, believing, etc.
Think what you want. Say what you think you must. Say whatever it takes to convince people that yours is a position of truthfulness and ours is a position of falsehood, I suppose. Some people do that, you know.
But isn't that what America all about from the beginning??
Nope. You just told a lie -- a big lie! a lie that's eventually going to cost me my Religious Liberty when it ends up making the Christian religion supreme in this land.
One of the main points of this web site is to show this lie to be the dangerous falsehood that it is.
I don't know who taught you history, but I just got my boots back from the shop: let's both go teach that person a lesson!
The United States emerged as a product of the Enlightenment, when almost all educated men and women thought the Christian religion had already rolled over and died, and that all we had to do was find a place to bury the corpse. Most educated men and women were Deists by the time the Revolution started.
Only a few of those who were involved in putting together our Constitution believed in a personal deity, a god you could pray to. The first six Presidents, if they applied for membership in your church, would be turned down because they didn't believe in Christ's divinity. Most of them didn't even believe in prayer. They all believed that religion was good for the masses, but they didn't think they themselves needed religion. At all.
In 1776, only 17 percent of the Colonists were members of a church. By 1870, that figure grew to a whopping 35 percent! In 1952, during the terror of the McCarthy Era, when Congress was buffaloed into putting "In God We Trust" on all our money and inserting "under God" into our Pledge of Allegiance, church attendance had mushroomed to 59 percent. By 1995, church membership reached 65 percent.
My hope is that you guys will respect such views.
But you don't respect my views!
Ah! It's that Christian greed again! I, the atheist, am expected to respect the Christian, but this Christian can disrespect me with impunity!
You don't even tell the truth about what I do and do not believe! How disrespectful does it get?
No, it doesn't work that way. In order to get respect from me, you must earn it.
And it times of mourning like after the Tragedy to find comfort in their faith.
As I said on the 14th of September, George Bush's "Day of Prayer and Remembrance," they were not mourning on that day. Had the Day of Prayer and Remembrance been about mourning, they would have conducted a eulogy service worthy of everybody who died on September 11th. Instead, it was nothing more than a slick infomercial for the Christian religion, with world-wide coverage, that didn't have to pay one thin dime for air-time!
(But you get what you pay for, and on the 14th, I predicted that it wouldn't last. I still hold to that opinion, because humans tend to have an innate respect for truthfulness, which means that this patent falsehood and exploitative commercialism that is Bush's "mourning" of the victims will show its colors in the minds and hearts of many Americans and Bush will be without the support he tells us is the reason he's doing this in the first place. It will backfire -- mark my word!)
Hear me out: I suggest that more who died in the World Trade Center were not Christians than were Christians! Fully ten percent of Americans list themselves as atheists, humanists, agnostics, skeptics, freethinkers, or other forms of saying, "No god belief." And this figure is higher in almost all other countries, it being lower only in places like Iran. So, if everybody killed had been Americans, fully 500 nonreligious people were degraded by this Christian spectacle, they were not mourned, because their funeral service was exploited for the purpose of propagating the Christian religion.
However, most of the people who worked in the World Trade Center were not Americans but were from other countries -- mostly from countries whose per-capita population of Christians is much lower than that of America. I'd bet the majority of those killed were not even Christians. Nevertheless, the so-called mourning service that our country held for them had more to do with the stumping for the Christian religion than it had to do with mourning or even with America! To liken it to an "infomercial" is, I think, somewhat generous on my part. I have held some very dark opinions about what Bush has done, many of which have made it onto this web site. I love my country and I hate what George W. Bush is trying to do to her.
As I pointed out on the 14th of September, they are setting a precedent that they can later use to take away our religious liberties and install the Christian religion as supreme. All they need to do is say, "See? Nobody complained on September 11th when all those Congressmen sang 'God Bless America' on the capitol steps! So we ought to be able to force Jewish and Muslim and Atheist and Buddhist and Wiccan school children to sing Christian songs and go to schools that have advertisements for the Christian religion posted on big signs on the outside, and the Ten Precepts of Christian Greed on every schoolroom wall."
And here you are, barely a month later, using that very event as a precedent for trying to tell me that the government ought to be in the tent-meeting racket! By telling the lies of the "Christian Nation" revisionists, and by lying about my beliefs and motives, and by lying about the history of the United States, you encourage the movement that will eventually eradicate my religious liberties, probably before the end of my life expectancy, if I just sit here and take it.
This is my Religious Liberty that will be eradicated, not your religious freedom -- you're a Christian and you will be spared under the current regime! (Although who's to say who will be on top once the protections have been removed and the machinery is in place? You'll probably be out of luck, too, because very few of the under-30 crowd, the future leaders, believe the Fundamentalist Christian clap-trap!)
But my Religious Liberty is in grave danger all the way around, and I'm going to fight for it: life for me would not be worth living if I were expected to submit to this lying, greedy religion known as Fundamentalist Christianity.
I am already forced to support the propagation of Christianity, a religion whose morality produces people who cannot be satisfied with "In God We Trust" but must have more! More!! More!!! Soon, "God Bless America" won't be enough, either; they'll want more! More!! More!!!
Study any segment of Christian history and you will see this trend. They ask for just their slice of the pie, but what they want is the whole pie! Every time, they want the whole pie! and if they don't get it, nobody else can have anything.
The land of the Free, where anyone can worship freely and have free speech, including about their own faith or believes.
If this is the land of the free, then why am I not free to practice my religious beliefs? Why am I forced to contribute money to Christian expression? Why does the government force the Christian religion upon me? Why can't I be free?
The more important question would be how could we all be free?
The answer is, the same way you can be free. We all can be free if and only if the government is forbidden from either endorsing or restricting the private religion of the people. If we restrict the government, then we can all be free.
And that is what the roots of America are about: we forbid the government from establishing religion, endorsing religion, preventing the free expression of religion by private citizens -- but not on-duty public officials. This includes government workers, such as teachers and presidents, while they're on duty. To express your religion is your right; to have a government job of responsibility is a privilege.
The problem is that you represent the movement which does not believe in Religious Liberty: your movement seeks to destroy Religious Liberty and replace it with Christian supremacy. And the most effective method that your movement has found is to lie about United States history. Your second most effective method has been to snivel about "religious freedom" when what you seek is to destroy the Liberties of everybody but yourselves.
But in the end, you will be out of luck, too, because without Religious Liberty, you will be told what to believe and when and how to worship. And as I mentioned, the current future leaders are not Fundamentalist Christians. Once you remove the protections and set up the machinery, you will be the first ones to suffer because your religion actually means something to you; my absense of religion is just that: the way I distinguish myself from the others. My atheism doesn't mean diddly to me, compared to what your faith means to you! I will fight for my Liberty for the sake of Liberty, not because my atheism means much to me. You will end up the bigger loser if we both end up on the losing end -- which is very likely if you folks continue your shenanigans.
So please don't get mad if they express their own belief and hang on to the root of America.
If they lie for the purpose of trying to take away my Liberty, I will do more than just get mad.
The root of America, as I showed above, is the Separation of Religion from Government. You just lied, and are lying for the purpose of trying to take my Religious Liberty away from me.
They may invite you to do so, but they don't force you I don't think.
Wrong!!! My government may not invite me to believe. To do that is against the law! To do that is most un-American.
We could get any further away from America's roots than what you just said here.
They're not asking or forcing you to believe.
My money says "In God We Trust" on it. You know what? That's a lie, too. But my country tells the world that I trust God!
They couldn't force me to believe even if that's what they wanted. But they don't want me to believe, the just want it to become law that I support the Christian religion. They want to legislate their narrow and often immoral morality and make it illegal for me, an atheist, to disobey the Christian God, who does not even exist.
My country doesn't just force me to believe, my country tells the whole world that I believe! What could be worse? They cannot go inside my head and make me believe, and they know it! But they tell the world that I believe. The word American, in Europe and the Muslim world and elsewhere, is synonymous with Christian. To say I am an American is to say I am a Christian in the eyes of much of the world. This all because some Christians during the McCarthy Era decided to write a bald-faced lie onto all of our money!
And I resent being thought of as a member of a religion that is as patently immoral as the brand of Christianity from America which makes most of the noise in this world. I resent being thought of as somebody who would even give Pat Robertson a cigarette if he asked for one on a downtown street corner. My country lies and I pay. Is that right?
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