Your Hate Jestures
Toward People
Is Very Bitter
[unsigned]

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Someone who thinks and writes very much like Andrew Jones opens up an anonymous HotMail account just to see if we'll twitch (after we put Andrew Jones on our 505 E-Mail Filter).

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From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Your Legacy" <yourlegacy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Last Legacy
Date: December 16, 2001 5:09 AM

I don't understand your question. Please elaborate.

Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

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From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Your Legacy" <yourlegacy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Last Legacy
Date: December 16, 2001 2:54 PM

What "hate jestures"? What is that? Please give me some examples, including a full explanation of each. Be sure to include the URL so we can know what you're talking about.

I don't consider shining a light on deceitfulness, bigotry, exploitation, and other immoral acts to be "hatred." Rather, I consider exposing evil to be an act of compassion, along with helping those who have been taken advantage of by religious hucksters and charlatans and to expose their wiles for what they are. Warning your brother that there is a snake in the grass could never be an act of "hate."

Again, please show how what I do constitutes "hate."

It is very simple for you to toss around emotionally charged language. Anybody can do this: it takes very few wits and absolutely no nerve.

Similarly, it is likewise very simple for you to "take on a little guy," as it were. There is no heroism involved in stepping on someone who is already down for the count for being a member of the most widely and viciously despised innocent minority group in history. A new poll shows that 66 percent of Evangelical Christians would distrust someone if all they knew about that person was that he is an unbeliever. Go ahead and join the crowd, because there is safety for cowards in a very large group.

One reason we have so much evil in this world is because loyal members of the big group use their resources to "squash the little guy" rather than doing the heroic thing of "going after the big guy" who is the real culprit in this situation. I would think you have more to gain than I, because the preachers have not deceived me in any way: you are the one who has fallen victim to their wiles, and I would hope you'd be the first in line to demand justice from them.

I have done nothing to harm you, or anyone else, for that matter: Why do you seek to tarnish my reputation when I have done nothing to deserve what you are doing to me?

Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

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From: "Positive Atheism Magazine" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Your Legacy" <yourlegacy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Last Legacy
Date: December 17, 2001 3:56 AM

Like I said, it's very simple to make bald assertions. Doing that requires neither intelligence nor integrity.

However, I requested that you show us what you are talking about: that means, give us some examples of this "bigotry" that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that you say is on our web site. Since our web site is "full of bigotry," as you claim, this should not have been as difficult as you're making it out to be.

Since you refuse to do this, I can only conclude that you have logged onto our Forum solely for the purpose of lying about me in front of our readers.
 

Again, you must show us some examples of this being advocated on our web site. I can think of no instances of our web site advocating such nonsense, and I'm the one who put the entire thing together -- I'm the one who approved every word that went into the 160 or so megabytes of material that is posted here.

Since you refused my request to provide examples of our writing to back up your claims, we are forced to conclude that all you want to do is try to discredit me, the web site, the readers who support the web site, and atheism as a whole.

Unfortunately, nobody is going to take you seriously, simply because you refuse our very reasonable request of providing examples of us having done what you accuse us of doing.
 

I don't follow.

I realize that there is no "God" and that "Satan" is likewise a fictional character in a plotless and rather unsavory series of pulp novels.

However, I don't understand how it follows that because "God" and "Satan" are fictional characters, therefore there is no such thing as good and evil. Are you simply trying to put words into our mouths? Are you doing this for the purpose of trying to discredit us? to tarnish our reputation and credibility in the eyes of our readers?

You know what? Our readers are very familiar with what it means to back up one's accusations with examples and evidence. Therefore, I doubt if any of the readers who support our cause will think of you as anything but crank -- a loser.

(Ooh! there's that word again!)
 

Now, how is it that you know what is going on within the privacy of my own mind?

Judge Roy Moore is in Alabama, and I doubt I'll ever have to go there.

Besides, Judge Roy Moore has been busted several times. Anybody who would support and respect a lawbreaking judge has already gotten what they deserve, in my opinion: they have become people who would support a lawbreaker just to aid in the propagation of a mere idea! and not one of their own ideas, either, but the ideas of large, greedy, cruel, and exploitative organization that has the bloodiest history of all the groups of humans who have ever banded together into groups. Such people deserve for their legacy to be that they endorsed and supported such a cruel and greedy hoarde of criminals. I could not think of a more fitting punishment.
 

Controversial and jurist are two words that do not go together well.

Yes, Moore stands for something. So did Hitler, Stalin, and Innocent III. Even Osama bin Laden stands for something.

To "stand for something" does not impress me: what is it that Judge Roy Moore stands for? It used to be that he stood for exploiting his office for an opportunity to post advertisements for his religious sect. Nowadays, not even his allies can tell, because he's had to stoop to sneaking around by cover of night! He didn't even reveal to his close associates what he was up to until after he'd pulled it off!

Anyone who would back Judge Roy Moore at this juncture deserves to be known as someone who would back Judge Roy Moore. As I said, I cannot think of a more fitting punishment than to have that as one's legacy.
 

As George Carlin once told Robert Anton Wilson, "Such logic! Such law!"

Let's follow this through:

Well, I have never said this -- though you refuse to point to a place where I have said it.

I suppose this is why I have engaged in full-time social activism, often working without compensation, since 1986. That's probably why I have done this work part-time since my early teens. That's even why I have come to great harm more than once during the course of this work without regret and without flinching from the responsibilities before me.

Whoa, Nellie! That's a more brilliant feat of parlor-magic than even Jesus, Moses, and Elijah are alleged to have performed! Hey, look, everybody! This clown who writes in on an anonymous HotMail account just made me disappear!

Well, it is not I who determines what legacy I end up with, because my legacy can only exist after I have died. That's what a legacy means. I could be brutally murdered by religious thugs tomorrow and my death spark a cultural revolution, instantly making me a martyr who will be remembered forever. That is not something over which I would have any control. All I can do is work toward a certain goal -- that being social change. But I do not determine the results of that work as far as my legacy is concerned.

Character has very little to do with legacy, anyway, becuase it is not the man who becomes the legacy but what he symbolizes. We are all familiar with the skeletons in Martin Luther King, Jr,'s closet, but that does not diminish the name Martin Luther King, Jr. Have you ever done a detailed study of the logs of Christopher Columbus? He'd rape a Amerindian woman and then whip her when he was done -- just for relief!

Nevertheless, since Christianity is waning and atheism is rapidly on the rise. Rapidly on the rise! If you were honest enough to face the music and take a peek at the statistics, your head would swim at just how quickly this is all taking place. I can predict that numerous atheists will have quite a legacy for themselves in the near future. Many of us will be remembered for having struggled against the likes of yourself in our attempts to bring to humankind the benefits by which we atheists hope our progeny will benefit.

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Again, have a nice life.

I mean this.

As far as I can tell, this is the only life we ever get to live.

Ponder that for a moment, and then think about what you want to do with your only (ever) opportunity to experience what is most certainly the single most covetable situation in the history of the entire universe: the experience of human consciousness (which, as far as we can tell, can only be coveted if you're already human).

Be that as it may, I wouldn't want to go on record as having endorsed a man such as Judge Roy Moore or having supported or even joined an organization such as the Christian religion.

If you are unwilling to back up your accusations against me by pulling examples of my work and showing the readers that I have done as you accuse me of doing, then please do not bother writing to this domain again. I actually try to respect the Christian religion, but when such a vast majority of the Christians who write to us are as dishonest as you have been, this goal becomes more and more difficult to reach. When I post 23 letters along the lines of yours to every one we get from a Roger Baker or a Martha or a Jeanne, or the relative handful of other reasonable Christians who have written to us. We know they exist, but they don't write to us. This makes it look as if we're being bigoted against Christianity: truth is, I post them as I get them, and what you see is the approximate ratio of hate mail from Christians versus reasonable communications from that group.

Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

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From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Your Legacy" <yourlegacy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Last Legacy
Date: December 17, 2001 1:35 PM

Correct: I will not "admit" to something that is not true. I am a man of morals: I cannot tell a lie, and you will not trick me into so doing.

Now, when Christians log on to my web site, which is clearly marked as being for the benefit of atheists, and when those Christians start baiting me, I tend to get a bit short-tempered. There is a big difference, though.

Nevertheless, I can see how a Christian who likes to bait atheists could easily come to the conclusion that atheists hate Christians -- with or without a response from said atheist!
 

Now you're being the bigot! You have defined the word atheist as meaning "someone who hates."

And I hesitate to bring this up, but -- how can I hate what doesn't even exist?
 

I don't need to warn the world about you. I simply post your words and let you do all the work!
 

Judge Moore has received the praises of men (such as yourself), and has thus received his reward.

Like I said, I could not devise a punishment more fitting than to be somebody who honors and respects a lawbreaking and controversial judge -- a man who violates the clear and direct command of the Jesus figure in the story that includes Matthew 6:5-6:

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[5] And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
[6] But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

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The most fitting punishment I could think of for Judge Moore would be to receive the praise of liars and bigots such as yourself.

By following the law, by upholding the United States Constitution, and by teaching good morals, by advocating that atheists do what is good and refrain from doing what is evil, I receive many praises. I cannot remember ever receiving a letter of praise from anybody whom I would disrespect for their own immorality. Those who show their appreciation for my work all seem to be good people!

Contrast this with Judge Moore, who recently lost what little he had left in the way of otherwise honest people who appreciated his stand. Now, all he has left is the respect of an anonymous Internet flamer who openly lauds a sneak!

The whole point of being a judge is that you've agreed to set aside your own personal viewpoints so you can assess situations according to the law of the land. A judge is a servant: Roy Moore is his own law.

Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

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Added: December 17, 2001

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From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Your Legacy" <yourlegacy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Last Legacy
Date: December 17, 2001 11:18 PM

Only because it cannot be explained from within the framework of your cultic world-view. You must step outside the bounds of that limited perspective before you can make sense of anything except what the cult's leaders want you to think.
 

Like I said, I'm not afraid of Pinocchio or Gepetto or any other fictional character. That which occurs entirely and exclusively within the imagination of a member of a goofy religious sect is of little concern to me.

Anyway, if nothing I have said makes the least bit of sense, then how do you know that what I have said is even an "attitude" at all? If you cannot understand what I say, if all is babble, as you say, then how can you assess that what I have said is something that the "God" character doesn't want me to say?

Besides, bribery is not morality: Morality is doing something because you know it is the right thing to do; bribery is doing something becuase someone frightened you or enticed you into doing it by saying something like, "God will reward you if you do" or "God will deal with you if you don't."

Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

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At this point, we placed yet another 505 E-Mail Filter on yet another of this poor clown's e-mail addresses.

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