Duh-ee! Don't Use
Your Poor Logic
To Mislead People
Ed Lewis

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This being such a clear attempt to menace, to slander Positive Atheism Magazine and myself, and to waste the time of our volunteers, we have invoked our "patently abusive e-mail" policy as described in the About page of the Letters section.
     Have a nice life, Mr. Lewis!

-- Cliff Walker, Publisher
Positive Atheism Magazine

 

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From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Ed Lewis" <elewis@mail.shighway.com>
Subject: Re: Big_List_Of_Quotations
Date: Friday, March 01, 2002 4:13 PM

Dear ed,

You are welcome to hold whatever opinions you wish to hold, but if you try to deceive our readers with falsehood, we are obligated to call you on your deceptiveness. Furthermore, if you are so bold as to publicly accuse us of attempting to deceive, you had better be ready to back up your accusation on at least your second letter to us (we'd hope this would have been done on your first letter, actually), lest you be found in violation of Positive Atheism's Abuse policy, which I'd think would be quite embarrassing. I certainly wouldn't want to be on the other end of PAM's abuse policy.

First off, what I posted on that page is not an "analysis of Madison's quote." It cannot be, because that is not a Madison quote to begin with: baed upon information currently available to historians, it cannot be shown that James Madison ever said such a thing. If you can show that Madison did say that, you are more skilled as a historian and more knowledgeable about Madison's writings than are the two men who edit Madison's collection of papers. If you cannot, you are a liar for saying that this is "Madison's quote," as the above-mentioned editors have stated that not only are they unable to find this among his known writings, but that its sentiments go against everything Madison is known to have said and written. Unlike yourself, Madison was a man of integrity, a man of his word, and thus his expressions are very self-consistent throughout his life. Your attitude toward truthfulness is showing bright and clear when you call this "Madison's quote," and your attitude toward integrity shines just as brightly when you place such language into my mouth!

Hey! Even that weasel David Barton admits that this particular one is "false"! But ed, ed knows more about this than even David Barton, and calls it "Madison's quote."

One place where ed goes astray of the truth, here, is that he considers the Declaration of Independence to be a document having any authority in the government of the United States of America. Unfortunately for ed's credibility, the Declaration of Independence had become a relic long before the United States of America was established.

Another place where ed tries to fool our readers is in placing meaning on the word creator in that document that is nearly impossible to establish by the document itself, and is flat-out impossible to establish by the authors of that document. In addition, ed also ignores the year in which this document was written, 1776, long before the Argument from Design was answered by Charles Darwin. By ignoring this important event in his attempt to portray the Founders of the United States of America as "religious" or believers in a "god" in the same sense that people today who are "religious" believe in a "god," ed shows himself to be a deceiver of the first order: one would be hard-pressed to show that ed seeks truth; rather, it becomes clear that ed seeks only to spew forth propaganda. Propaganda is not philosophy, and we support this board for the discussion of philosophy, not for the dissemination of propaganda.

In short, ed displays, in glowing red, white, and blue, that his primary motive for even sending this letter is to menace people with whom ed disagrees: had he any other motive for telling us this information (even if it were true, which it is not, but even if it were), then we would be able to detect, from his writing, why ed wishes to tell us this information. Why is it so important to ed that he tell us that "This nation was founded on the laws of the Creator"? Does ed tell us why he has made this statement to us? No, he does not even so much as give us a clue.

This leaves us with only one option: ed wishes to portray himself (his group, actually) as being somehow superior to us (our group, actually) by boasting that he (his group) has more of a right to be here than we (our group), more of a right to American heritage than we (our group), or some other inherent advantage over us (our group) that is in some way written into the founding philosophy of the government of our country. Through such attempts at intimidation, ed ends up supporting a form of terrorism that, on the surface, appears benign, but which, in the long run, seeks to have already made, from the beginning, second-class citizens of those who do not boast of the same advantages of which ed and his ilk claim to enjoy. Terrorism does not read the documents and agreements governing a nation but rather interprets them as it will, taking the law into its own hands. This is how history revisionism becomes kin to terrorism.

Liberty, on the other hand, allows both ed and ed's group to flourish on the same terms and with the same dignity as Cliff and everybody else who has gone through the changes that are required to enjoy American citizenship. And most importantly, Liberty does not need to lie in order to get her message across, but merely reads the Constitution, appreciates its glory, and proceeds to support and uphold that Constitution (rather than trying to usurp that constitution with a Declaration of Independence, be it the one from 1776 or a newer one). Liberty need not lie, because there's nothing worth lying about! We are all equal because there are no gods in our Constitution wherein anybody might think that this or that sect is favored.

Why would someone want to dispute that this is everybody's country (not some god's) unless that person wished to gain the upper hand through some form of intimidation (terrorizing)?

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The main deception that ed foists upon our readers is his claim that the principles which form the basis of our government are religious. This person, ed, can merely jump up and down and shout about this, as nobody can point to any religious principles which even remotely resemble the founding principles of the government of the United States of America. If ed can clearly demonstrate, through the use of overwhelming amounts of example, that the founding principles of the United States government come from any of the religious dogmas known to Westerners in 1789, and if ed can successfully reply to the arguments (strewn throughout our web site) which show these principles to have come from sources other than religion, we will post a retraction and will link it prominently from our Front Page.

If ed is unwilling to do this, then we expect ed to issue a full apology both to us and to our readers for accusing us of attempting to mislead (when we have thoroughly documented our case) and for attempting to deceive us by claiming that the founding principles of the Unites States government come from religion.

If ed does neither, we will instigate our abuse policies as posted in the About page of our e-mail section. We do this because we do not take our quest for truthfulness lightly. We have nothing to sell and do not care what others believe. We offer these resources solely for the benefit of our readers who must constantly deal with deceivers such as ed and need to have the answers not only presented in an understandable format but, most of all, thoroughly documented so that we don't get caught doing to others what ed has just been caught doing to us.

Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six-and-a-half years of service
    to people with no reason to believe

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From: "Positive Atheism Magazine" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Ed Lewis" <elewis@mail.shighway.com>
Subject: Re: Big_List_Of_Quotations
Date: March 01, 2002 4:52 PM

Wow! Not more than five minutes! I just bet tonight's dinner that you'd respond faster than it would take for an average person to read, absorb, and respond intelligently to that thing.

Let's see: what do I want to eat, tonight?

Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six-and-a-half years of service
    to people with no reason to believe

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Here it is, directly from The "I Told You So" Show! He didn't even read it, but has the audacity to ask us what we're talking about!
     And now we're making threats!?

-- Cliff Walker, Publisher
Positive Atheism Magazine

 

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Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995-2006 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.